Co-op Housing Crunch

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From the Archives of CHF Canada - Co-op Talk, and some selected posted messages for your review:

JODI SHAW posted message on January 2, 2013

"Okay I will try to not make this too long. I have lived in our co-op for 6 years. Upon moving in I discovered we were always in financial trouble but managed to keep ourselves going. We have 5 years left on our mortgage."

"In the past year our co-op has completely fallen apart. We have 15 vacate units right now, people are up and leaving without giving notice leaving their shares. They are fed up with mold issues, roofing issues, and the board which is basically run by two people."

"Rules are being changed without our consent. Board members are emailing in camera minutes to each other and board minutes to each other which is so not right. Rules are not being followed. Examples: A member requested our maintence helper (another member) not come into her  to fix her hot water tank because he is not a certified plumber."

He brought his kids while working whom she had to babysit. While she went to work a board member unlocked her door and let this member (maintence guy) in to do the work without her consent. At the members meeting she was irate with this and brought it up and our Board dismissed it!"

"So yeah stuff like that is going on. Several of us left have called CMHC and CHFBC for help we get none. We recently discovered that all our shared have been used now for the operating costs of our co-op without our consent. Our bills last month were barely paid, basically we had 2000 left over."

"Many of us believe we are finished and wish to dissolve the co-op so we can get back some of what we put into this. I paid $1800 to get in and probably won't be given back to me. People are also being allowed to live here owing more than their shares before being given a 1030 to vacate."

"Does anyone have any suggestions on this. 3 people just up and moved this past weekend leaving their shares behind because they just don't want to deal with the crap in here. That's how bad it is. I am sad because a year ago families lived here and my kids had friends to play with. Now it's lonely and sad seeing all these people leave and nobody doing anything about it."

RONALD SCHLAMP posted message on June 30, 2009

"As I learn more about the Rules and Acts governing our Coop specifically our, by-laws and Coops in general, Coop Act, Incorporated Business Act, the National Housing Act, the Society Act, the Residential Tenancy Act, Governing Legislations, Program Rules, etc., I am seeing red flags going up all around me."

"Some of my concerns are the President acting like she owns the Company and her word is the final say on everything, including 1/ making decisions outside the Boardroom that countermand decisions made by the whole Board without any discussion with anyone in, or out of the Boardroom"

"2/ Siding with her friends in conflicts with other Members or Directors and settling the conflict by domination and intimidation, many times without even involving the other party in the conflict"

"3/ she has two good friends on the Board and they believe they can do anything they want around the Coop because they can go to her for such overpowering decisions as were made in the second example ( the daughter of one of her Director friends yelled out " she can do anything she F___ing wants around here during a disagreement with one other Member"

"4/ one or more of these 3 Directors have stayed in power past their "no longer than 6 consecutive years without stepping down for at least one year" terms"

"5/ the President has a Company staffed by friends who get most of the jobs around our Coop without other bids being tendered, and when others suggest they know a Company that can do the job cheaper they are ignored"

"6/ other Directors are fearful of speaking out against these  3 or 4"

"7/ when I approached the President with my concerns about not running the Coop according to the rules I was told by her that this wouldn't work because no one follows rules around here ( no wonder to me why now ) I now see that these few Directors spend the money on the things they want, most spending with no input from the Board, and just like the contractor situation, when other Directors do talk with her when they do hear she is buying something ( like the 2 brand new benches used mostly only by these few Directors and one of their friends ),"

"their alternative suggestions are not taken seriously, nor are they considered at a Board Meeting, as I feel they should be) This is just a smattering of the problems I see here at my Coop - there are many , many more including a general apathy amoungst the Members, anarchic behavior from some of the youth, fear of these Directors from many and resentment from many others."

"I, myself, am the newest member of this Coop (2 yrs. - 1 yr. on the Board ), 2nd newest on the Board, so have not rightly determined all of the Directors loyalties. I know there are the President and her 2 friends that back each other on anything, then I have only really talked to one of the other 3 and she agrees with my summations, but believes it better to bury the head like an ostrich rather than chance trouble."

"I have yet to talk to the other two alone to determine if they are interested in voting to rescue the Coop from these Coopnappers. Do any of you see any other way than what a CHF rep told me was the only way to regain the hijacked power, through majority Board decisions."

"Can not any Rules and regs be applied from any Acts or Rules at all without a Board decision to apply them? Just in case I cannot gain a majority yet to get our Coop back in the hands of the shareholders I would like to know my alternatives , if any. Thanx people"

TERESA BARCLAY-KUCZERYK posted message on April 11, 2009

"Hi, My name is Teresa & I have just found this site after a VERY upsetting AGM. I am on the internet trying to get information on the rights of the general members on dispute with the board of directors. if anyone here can help I & my fellow co-op members would GREATLY appreciate it!"

..."Here is our problem: We live in a rather large cooperative housing community . Larger than what would be average with 107 townhouse units. We have approximately 10 units that are affected with a drainage issue. ALL in the same block, & on the same side of our co-op."

"During our Nov. AGM we collectively agreed to hire a professional to access the issue. Tonight our members were informed that the contractor has suggested that ALL gardens & fences must be removed at our cost...grading will then be done & swills will be installed. We were then informed that once the work is completed the BOARD has decided that we will NOT be permitted to have our gardens OR Fences again! Our current policies allow for both...we are also one of the few co-ops that allow pets."

"**I should also say here that we HAVE done this SAME drainage solution 3 times prior in our 20 year history & each time this solution DID NOT solve the issue. We have SEVERAL professional members (Landscapers, Contractors & Plumbers) currently living in our co-op. We do have other options that we were not permitted to explore.***"

"...We were also informed that because we voted to have the assessment done the general members no longer have a say as to the work that will be done & all of this will begin despite any objections to the contrary. However after requesting to see where in our Nov. minutes this was stated - the board could not provide any documentation to support this."

"Naturally, the majority of our members were very upset about this! We DID have a member of CHF there. However she refused to answer our questions, & skirted any enquires as to our rights in the matter."

"For example: after after much debate, one of our members suggested we postpone the work to be done until we can hold another meeting to discuss ALL  member concerns & issues. This suggestion was not answered & the board moved on with the discussion."

"We were then told that we could NOT discuss this with our board & must direct ALL further questions to the CHF rep. The rep told us that the board can make ANY & ALL decisions in regards to the co-op including changing policies & did NOT need to get the approval of the general members."

"After which she answered EVERY further inquiry with "Ok - we here you. Any other questions?", and would promptly move on. This continued until I pointedly told her that we had asked the question 3 times already; Can the members request that all work be suspended until we have the time to research other options & collectively discuss & vote?"

"She then told us that she was unsure - but believed that we had NO rights to request this & told us that despite our objections the work would continue as planed. She also stated that she is here to help the board NOT the general members."

"Also I should mention that 3 out of the 6 current board members also had questions & concerns & did not seem to AGREE with the CHF member or president of our board."

"My question is this...What ARE the member's rights in a matter such as this? The majority of us do NOT want to continue like this & would like to make sure our voices are heard. Any questions?"...

"Teresa

Concerned Co-op Member"

JASON SMITH posted message on March 14, 2008

"Hi my name is Jason Smith my room mate and I moved to spruce housing co-op last april and were really looking forward to participating in life at a co-op."...

"They had their AGM just prior to our moving in so we moved in with a new board."...

"unfortunatly the the current board (some still have stayed on as some positions are 2 yrs) has also fractured and divided ours as well, amoung other problems. I believe we are also a co-op in crisis . maintenance requests were/are being ignored for months and in some cases longer."

"they are rude to people who are not in their small circle and to top it off 2 of them have been having an affair that has split 2 familes and they have been keeping a unit free for their "private meetings" that should have been rented out mths ago (it has been vacant 3.5 mths now). they have also givin contracts for windows and parking to companies, members family members work for or own who are also board members."

"they also keep bringing in Thom Armstrong from the co-op housing federation of BC to chair meetings so that we cant question them on these issues. they (the board) have decided that the meetings and elections are going to be done by the book, which wasnt exactly how things were done here for many years here but it worked and was legal, they elected a member to each position where now the elected board decides and questions were allowed about issues."

"Thom kept shutting us down and at one point told us that the legislation we were asking about was wrong and that was it."

"if its legislated isnt it right until it is changed? and yes some people got angry but never out of control. they also neglected to tell us it is costing the co-op 255$ per meeting for him as well. we has to bring that up at the meeting."

"we feel like we are just being trampled upon and we dont know where to turn. can you help us in any way? some advice or somewhere, someone to turn to? thanks for reading, Jason Smith, Spruce Housing co-op"  

JASON SMITH posted message on March 18, 2008

"i recieved an email today from thom armstrong saying that he will continue to let me rant but if i misquoted him again he would not take the same approach. I did not misquote him , he told us the legislation was wrong on an issue and a room full of people heard him and i can provice 25+ witnesses to the fact."

"I thought this was supposed to be a safe place to ask for help when problems arise, obviously it is not. I thank the people who emailed me with some useful advice but now im worried that he is going to blab to the board what ive written and that they will conveniently leave out of the minutes what was said by him."

TAMRA NOBLE posted message on January 2, 2008 

 

"Hello I am the new property manager for Place Aile Nord. This is my first time doing this type of work I have been at it now for about 3 months I think that I may be getting the hang of some of it. Any advise for a newby." 

 

 

 

ROBERT A. WISEMAN posted message on January 2, 2008 

 

"Hi Tamra. Welcome to the sector and to Co-op Talk. At this point, I would urge you not to hesitate to ask questions. You can get los of support from your colleagues [us].

 

 

 

FRED GERRIOR posted message on April 28, 2006

"Has anyone heard about a coordinator ripping off two co-ops in Hamilton?"

"Apparently $270,000.00 was allegedly stolen and I don't see any topic on how these misappropriations happened."

"And to think this coordinator called me a liar at GM meetings and board meetings - unbelievable!" 

 

 

 

BRYNNE TEAL posted message on April 6, 2005 

 

"I will be blunt. I feel very uncomfortable when I see particular Boards or members or staff pilloried for the problems (whether real or perceived) that exist in their co-ops."

 

"I have cringed and/or been angered by some of the postings and feel that some of them have been on the verge of being libellous. It doesn't matter if people aren't named. Many of us still know who is being referred to."

 

"I do not think it's fair in a forum like this to belittle people or destroy their reputations. I do not think it is right that accusations of graft and corruption are posted unless they have been confirmed by an auditor, lawyer or funder and/or have been proven in a court of law."

 

"And even then why dwell on the past? Work hard to fix the problems and get procedures in place right quick so it doesn't happen again. I don't like wasting my time getting together information, that the posting was really just a ruse."

 

"I don't like hidden agendas - again a huge waste of time for people who come on Co-op Talk IN GOOD FAITH to get and share information and news. Okay - blunt but not brief."   

 

 

 

PERNELL DUCHAINE posted message on November 20, 2005 

 

..."the BOD does act with the help of a staff person. They are what we call new because our elections were held in May. Some of the directors have been on the BOD before, others their first time."

 

"There have been many a time that the BOD have been sent for the purpose of getting better educated as a Board. However we have not seen the benefits of these workshops. The membership is in total agreement that there should be 7 new people on our Board."

 

"We also agree that the current coordinator of our Co-op should be let go or transferred. Members have been treated with the utmost disrespect and rudeness from all parties. This particular BOD and staff member just recently tried to evict a member who has never been late with rent, has kept his unit in tip top shape and who has been an active member until he became ill recently."

 

"Their reason was his behaviour at our last General Membership Meeting when we were all brought together to approve the proposed budget. When asked if the membership had any questions he raised his hand...this is where we are all confused...no one was able to answer his questions pertaining to the budget, instead the coordinator got defensive and our VP told this particular member in front of all the members that he had an attitude problem and he was being disruptive."

 

"We did not agree about this he was simply asking valid questions, which were not answered to anyone's satisfaction. They stated in the reasons for his eviction, that his behaviour was unaccepable...I snicker at this because if this were the case then all 6 members of the BOD should have been up for eviction as well. Ouer co-op has 46 units and it is getting increasingly hard to live here, according to the BOD if you voice your opinion you will have to face them for eviction. Not Right!!?" 

 

 

 

MERRILEE ROBSON posted message on November 21, 2005 

 

"Hi Pernell. As one of the moderators of this discussion area, I'd like to draw your attention to the Netiquette area of Co-op Talk. We like to point this out to new participants."

 

"It's perfectly acceptable to ask questions and get advice from other members about how to request a meeting. But we discourage personal remarks about board members and staff."...

 

 

 

ROBERT A. WISEMAN posted message on November 21, 2005 

 

"Pernell, with all due respect, it is not fair for you to post disparaging comments about your fellow co-op members and your staff person on this forum."...

 

 

 

PERNELL DUCHAINE posted message on November 22, 2005 

 

"I'm sorry, I didn't realize that I was acting improper. I was under the impression that I would be able to ask questions about concerns we have. I am educated and have lived here for 5 years and have seen Boards come and go."

 

"Now when you say that I am not in full possession of all the facts, you are mistaken...I have spent much time studying our by-laws, Social reform act and Co-op acts, I do realize they are human...we all are...but when by-laws are being broken and it is staff and the BOD who are breaking them does the membership just have to sit back and let it happen."

 

"I'm not trying to bash them I am simply trying to get some help from what better place than here. If I was out of line, then I apologize...I will no longer post here, but I would like you to know that we have called all over and have e-mailed so many people and we as a membership...and I am speaking for our membership under their request...all agree that we have no rights, we feel our hands are tied. We were a community once, nothing has ever been done to me or my family, but I feel I must do my part to make sure it stays that way."   

 

 

 

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Information may be revised, added or deleted without prior notification

Ken Hummel, Administrator, CHIE